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From: University Place, WA, United States
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posted 10-01-2000 05:02 AM              

But I'm sure the mods won't delete it...

All you are doing is trying to start flame wars, but others get trolled or banned for doing the same, with backup, in support of GCube, Xbox, or DC...

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From: Crystal Tokyo of the 30th century
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posted 10-01-2000 05:04 AM              

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"Has the darkness spread so far that we cannot see a single star...?"

Small Lady

Posts: 410
From: Crystal Tokyo of the 30th century
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posted 10-01-2000 05:07 AM              

[This message has been edited by SmallLady (edited 10-01-2000).]

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From: Sydney, Australia
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posted 10-01-2000 06:31 AM              

But lets see how microsoft does, they are the only company with lots of third party support.

Member

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From: Los Angeles, CA., USA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 10-01-2000 07:10 AM              

Sony Unbeatable? ummm No! Lets try "Sony Unbearable" Thats better

Its mathmatically impossible for Sony to sell 70 Million PS2's.... Market conditions would have to be exactly the same as when the PSX ruled in the last console generation.

We have Nintendo's Cube and Microsoft Xbox and that my friends is more than enough to hold off Sony. I am not conserned about Sony taking the market, I am conserned how they will do with lesser marketshare.

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posted 10-01-2000 12:17 PM              

Sony just has to make one mistake and every other system will take advantage and Sony will be beaten.

Senior Member

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From: Indiana
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posted 10-01-2000 01:01 PM              

Oh come on Doc... I thought you had more brains that that!!! 70 million PS2s sold is MORE than possible.. it's entirely probably if Sony starts getting on the ball and really taking advantage of they have here. Think about it for a moment.. just HOW many house holds in this world have color TV's? That's Sony's market.. That's what they want to aim for. By your way of thinking.. the Console market never changes.. never increases or decreases. If the market were static like that then I'd say yes, you were right.. but it's not.

Five years ago if you had told someone that that the PSX would sell over 70 million, close to 80 million, units by the end of it's life.. they'd have thought you were nuts. It would have been "Mathematically Impossible" given the status of the console market at that time.

Things change man. As video games become increasingly mainstream, expect even more of an increase in the potential market. However if the videogame industry looses it's steam and mainstream appeal, then there might be a possibility that NOONE in this generation will sell 70 million units.

BTW: I don't think Sony is unstoppable.. but they are going to be one hell of a tough obstical for competing console makers to overcome. Right now Sony has all the card.. but that dosen't mean shit if they don't play them right.

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Life is the trip, not the destination. - Jerry Garcia

Senior Member

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From: Boca Raton, FL, USA
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posted 10-01-2000 01:00 PM              

If Sony wants to be unbeatable this time around, they're going to want to have the BEST games on their system, because that's all that really matters.

-Zenogias

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From: Ky
Registered: Sep 2000

Posts: 1591
From: Mount Vernon, WA.
Registered: May 2000

posted 10-01-2000 06:40 PM              

ANyway in all honesty I see a tight race for at least 2 more years with all 4 consoles surviving for awhile..

The market is bigger, and we may see an equal playing filed this time around, or not equal but close.

Anything is possible

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posted 10-01-2000 08:16 PM              

It is impossible for Sony to sell 70 million units, they have too much competition
its more likely that Sony will sell something like 20 million.

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From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 10-01-2000 08:24 PM              

NES sold 80 million i believe, SNES and Genesis sold 30 million each for 60 million combined.

The market increased yes, Nintendo kept the kids in the market, without them the market would not have got bigger, kids wouldnt play systems and the market would be 70 million, 10 million less than it was in the NES era.

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From: Mount Vernon, WA.
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posted 10-01-2000 08:26 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by SegaCultX:

It is impossible for Sony to sell 70 million units, they have too much competition
its more likely that Sony will sell something like 20 million.

---

I bet the farm they sell more than that

and very very easily. There is way to much support for the system for people not to be interested in it.

and the Videogame market is over 100 million potential buyers

PSX = 70 million, N64 = 30 million

We will see it up in the 125 - 150 million by 2004 or so.

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From: canada
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posted 10-01-2000 08:30 PM              

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Senior Member

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From: Indiana
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-01-2000 08:55 PM              

Impossible?? Phhtfff.. you putz.

------------------
Life is the trip, not the destination. - Jerry Garcia

[This message has been edited by SonyFan (edited 10-01-2000).]

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posted 10-02-2000 12:48 AM              

Some of us used to think that Nintendo could not be beaten, but look at the N64 and its problems.It can easily happen to Sony too.

Microsoft and NGC will give Sony of ******* bigger fight this time around. Don't expect Sony to walk away with it this time, because they won't.

Remember,this X-Mas Sony won't be doing so good due to the shortage of console. That is a problem.

Member

Posts: 291
From: Los Angeles, CA., USA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 10-02-2000 04:05 AM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by SonyFan:
Actually, there's over a billion a Color TV sets in homes across the globe. So to say that the PS2, or any next gen machine for that matter, cannot sell more than 70 Million units is pure lunacy. The console market is dynamic, not static.. it can grow and shrink in the number of potential buyers at any time. Sony proved that in the last generation.

Impossible?? Phhtfff.. you putz.

---

1) We don't know if 70 Million PSX were actually sold. Sony lies and sometimes uses SHIPPED NUMBERS INSTEAD OF SELL THROUGH NUMBERS. To help educate you people, Shipped means shipped to the stores. Sell Through means to sell a shipped item to the customer.

2) By comparing color TV's you might as well be comparing hair brushes. It doesn't work like that. You can't compare color TV's because they are the same platform and nothing has changed, all Color TV's work together, they are a standard. Consoles are not a standard period.

3) Consoles have been around for a long time and Sony's has reached as much mainstream as its going to get before that it was the NES and then before that the Atari 2600.

4) You have four consoles selling and the market is different this time. This divides your so called "mainstream" by at least 4 and then there are those that are PC users and will never buy a console. This means the market dynamics are different, way different than they were before. If you wanted any games at all there was only one choice, now there are 4 good choices at the least.

5) Sony wants to think Video games are becoming as mainstream as movies, but this is no where near true as far as buying sales are concerned. The video game market makes more money than the movie industry but the problem is price... You pay 50-60 and in some cases 70 dollars for the latest games from the PSX to N64 and thats with all platforms combined and probably the PC combined with it, but yet at the most here in Hollywood, I pay 9 dollars and in NYC I paid 9 dollars. Most places are around 6-7 dollars for a movie, thats a big difference.

6) As I said before, the last generation of video games sucked, Saturn did terrible because it was too complex (PS2 style) and died and so did the developer support and N64 was made for little kids and thats where Nintendo focuses their market and the games were on carts so nobody wanted the bother of the expense so nobody made games and thus N64 took a backseat. If Nintendo would have used CD's like the PS2 and focused on both the kids market and the adult market that was directly aimed at Sony, sony would not have been where they are today, point blank, Sony got lucky because everyone else underestimated them.

7) Consumer PC's have sold over 100 Million, but again thats under one platform. Which is another reason the PS2 can not sell as a PC. WebTV has failed, DC for Browsing the Internet has failed. You can't get a console to replace a PC, because then it loses sight of being a console and a fixed platform, thats a consoles strengths and by trying to make a console a PC, Sony will lose here again.

8) PS2 sold well in Japan for DVD, but won't sell here on that fact. Most people don't want to use a console to play DVD's because it doesnt have a remote and they can get a 5 disc changer with more options on a cheap DVD player that is a DVD player solely. Its a great added plus for a console but its not going to replace stand-alone DVD players any time soon. Its like putting a TV on your computer, or playing DVD movies on your computer, how many of you do it? Its just not practical to control the dvd with a controller and have less the features of a real DVD player, plus its cheap and cheezy.

9) The price of the PS2 is going to prevent it from being a big hit in many homes and this is very true in Europe and Austrailia where the prices are out of the reach of most homes and in the USA its going to be a hard sell. Microsoft has invented stuff like Parental control and will battle with the PS2 on price, and these matter. How many kids have shot other kids in the USA this year. Kids playing Violent video games is already a big issue and will get bigger and this is another feature Microsoft can tout.

10) Sony is supposed to be working on the PS3 in three years or so. They want to upgrade the market like a PC market but in less time. Instead of upgrading the market every year like PC's do they want to get a head start on the competition by releasing a new platform every 2-3 years. They want to leapfrog Microsoft's technology by bringing out the PS3.

Again, market conditions and society conditions have changed and it is mathmatically impossible for Sony to Sell 70 Million units of the PS2. Mark my words on that.

I don't doubt that Sony will sell 6 million easily, but thats no where near 70 Million in four years.

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From: Sweden
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posted 10-02-2000 04:29 AM              

If the price for a game don't get lowered the consoles will kill themselves. A relatively high price on a console can be accepted cause it's a one-time paying. But the games... All games won't be true gems. They have to lower the game prices.

Is it only me who sees this as a problem?

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Senior Member

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From: Indiana
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posted 10-02-2000 07:47 AM              

"1) We don't know if 70 Million PSX were actually sold. Sony lies and sometimes uses SHIPPED NUMBERS INSTEAD OF SELL THROUGH NUMBERS. To help educate you people, Shipped means shipped to the stores. Sell Through means to sell a shipped item to the customer."

No, you are wrong. Sony has SOLD more than 70 million PSX units, closing in on 80 million. Who did they sell them to? Not the consumer.. but the retailers. If the retailers cannot move PSX's out the door.. then why spend the extra money to order more from Sony? Of course some of the units were sold through Sony's offical site.. but that's just a drop in the bucket compaired to what they've sold through retail chains.

"2) By comparing color TV's you might as well be comparing hair brushes. It doesn't work like that. You can't compare color TV's because they are the same platform and nothing has changed, all Color TV's work together, they are a standard. Consoles are not a standard period."

What the hell are you talking about? You need a color Television (Whatever model, HDTV, Standard, Plasma, and soon to be Moniters) to play the PS2. That means that for every Color TV out there, there's a possibility that a PS2 could be hooked up to it. Hence, if there are over a billion color TV owning homes in the world.. theoritcally Sony could put their PS2 in over a billion homes. Realistically that number is reduced greatly by a marid of factors, but still.. that's their market. Everyone who owns a Color TV is a potential customer. I thought you would have picked that up. looks like I guessed wrong.

"3) Consoles have been around for a long time and Sony's has reached as much mainstream as its going to get before that it was the NES and then before that the Atari 2600."

The Genesis and SNES only sold roughly 25-35 million consoles a piece. Sony is the first company in the industry to break the 70million mark, and still climbing. Now that's it?? That can never happen again? Geeze, I'm glad there aren't more people like you throughout history. To think 80% of us could still be driving horse carriges while only 20% of the population drives cars. After all.. market sizes CAN'T change.. now can they??[/Sarcasm]

"4) You have four consoles selling and the market is different this time. This divides your so called "mainstream" by at least 4 and then there are those that are PC users and will never buy a console. This means the market dynamics are different, way different than they were before. If you wanted any games at all there was only one choice, now there are 4 good choices at the least."

Well let's see.. One billion color TV's (roughly) devided evenly between five different competetors equals out to be about 200,000,000 customers for each competing company. Now I know there are serious fundemental flaws in that logic. First off.. the market has about a snowball's chance in hell of being evened out like that in this generation. Some competetors will take much more than 20% of the market.. some less. Secondly that number is assuming that each and every color TV owning household buys only one gaming platform.

However, I did not post those numbers for any kind of accuracy or predictions. I only posted them to show the POTENTIAL of this market. Is there a possiblity that noone in this generation will sell over 70 million units? Of course, but to say that any gaming platform in this generation CAN NOT sell over 70 million units is insane.

"5) Sony wants to think Video games are becoming as mainstream as movies, but this is no where near true as far as buying sales are concerned. The video game market makes more money than the movie industry but the problem is price... You pay 50-60 and in some cases 70 dollars for the latest games from the PSX to N64 and thats with all platforms combined and probably the PC combined with it, but yet at the most here in Hollywood, I pay 9 dollars and in NYC I paid 9 dollars. Most places are around 6-7 dollars for a movie, thats a big difference."

I don't quite get what you are trying to say here. Videogames may not be as mainstream as movies, even though outgrossing the movie industry, but that dosen't mean they aren't mainstream at ALL. That's like saying that printers aren't mainstream since Pens & Pencils outsell printers by enourmous rates and are much much cheaper. Remember also that the videogame industry is still rather young. Movies have had umpteen decades to become integrated with our culture, videogames have only been around for the past 3.

"6) As I said before, the last generation of video games sucked, Saturn did terrible because it was too complex (PS2 style) and died and so did the developer support and N64 was made for little kids and thats where Nintendo focuses their market and the games were on carts so nobody wanted the bother of the expense so nobody made games and thus N64 took a backseat. If Nintendo would have used CD's like the PS2 and focused on both the kids market and the adult market that was directly aimed at Sony, sony would not have been where they are today, point blank, Sony got lucky because everyone else underestimated them."

All I have to say is that hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to point out the impact on the market the strenghts and weaknesses of past machines had. It's harder to predict the future based on what you know in the present. Sega's lack of advertising could ruin them, Sony's programming difficutly could ruin them, Nintendo's focus on a games only machine could ruin them, Microsoft's reputation could ruin them as well.

All we can do is make educated guesses. In the last generation, Sony was the underdog. They had the least powerful hardware, no reputation, no real fanbase, a handful of 3rd party developers, and not to mention that all other contestants in the console market were crushed easily by the giants, Sega & Nintnedo. For every weakness on a platform in the 32/64 bit console race.. there was a strenght. The situation is no different in this generation. What matters is weither or not each company can successfully navigate around the weaknesses and exploit the strenghts of their consoles.

The N64 by all rights should have failed miserably last gen, but didn't. Sure it didn't win.. but it still surprised everyone in the industry with it's staying power. We have still yet to see how each company will manage their consoles in this next generation. A year into the NGC and Xbox's releases.. then we can truly begin to make educated guesses on who the victor will be.

"7) Consumer PC's have sold over 100 Million, but again thats under one platform. Which is another reason the PS2 can not sell as a PC. WebTV has failed, DC for Browsing the Internet has failed. You can't get a console to replace a PC, because then it loses sight of being a console and a fixed platform, thats a consoles strengths and by trying to make a console a PC, Sony will lose here again."

100 million? And just how long has that number been tallied? Consumer PC's have been around since the early 80's.. not an impressive record compaired to consoles. Perhaps "Market Penetration" would have been a better term for you to have used.

Anyway, how can you proclaim that the DC as a webbrowser is a failure when the DC hasn't been a rousing success as a games console either? Who in their right mind would buy a DC ONLY for it's online browsing capabilities?? Now with the PS2, Xbox, and NGC all having net access.. we will see in this generation weither or not web browsing consoles are a hit or not. You are counting that feature out of the game before the game has even really begun. Not a wise stance to take.

"8) PS2 sold well in Japan for DVD, but won't sell here on that fact. Most people don't want to use a console to play DVD's because it doesnt have a remote and they can get a 5 disc changer with more options on a cheap DVD player that is a DVD player solely. Its a great added plus for a console but its not going to replace stand-alone DVD players any time soon. Its like putting a TV on your computer, or playing DVD movies on your computer, how many of you do it? Its just not practical to control the dvd with a controller and have less the features of a real DVD player, plus its cheap and cheezy."

All I have to say is.. look around you. Search the net. Talk to people on the street. Check out pre-order sales. For this early in the consoles life.. the PS2 is doing extraordinarily well in the states. Sure it won't replace the Standalone DVD, and cannot sell very well as only a Standalone DVD player. However, it's the only videogame machine so far to offer DVD playback, which I believe most people like because it will tide them over until they can afford a good standalone unit.

I'm not even going to bother with point nine since it's been argued over too many damn times in just the past few days. If the PS2's price is "too expencive" then how in the hell did the PSX gain success considering it launched at the same price? How in the hell will the Xbox succeed with a launch price of $300??

Those who are willing to pay the prices now will get one, those who aren't willing to pay the prices will buy one when the price drops. It's a simple lesson taught in highschool economics classes. Just follow the supply and demand curves.

Huh.. looks like I answered it anyhow.

"10) Sony is supposed to be working on the PS3 in three years or so. They want to upgrade the market like a PC market but in less time. Instead of upgrading the market every year like PC's do they want to get a head start on the competition by releasing a new platform every 2-3 years. They want to leapfrog Microsoft's technology by bringing out the PS3."

Just where in the hell did you hear this news Please, by all means, give a link. Sony's plans, as far as I've heard, is to release the PS3 in 2005, the PS4 in 2010. Now the Indremeda.. that's a different story. That little piece of machinery is built to last ten years, yet be upgraded yearly to keep up with current graphics technologies. Perhaps you got the two stories jumbled together?

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Life is the trip, not the destination. - Jerry Garcia

I LOVE SONY!!!!

Posts: 113
From:
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 10-02-2000 12:54 PM              

Sony's like a leopard in a tree, with a lion (microsoft), a hyena(Nintendo) and a cheetah(sega) on the ground salivating at it's kill. The kill is big and the branch is bending, will Sony hang on? go to JUMP

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"The Reverend Shalt Not Rest Until the Sony Empire Hath Crumbled!"
--ReverendXbox 2000.

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Posts: 331
From: Usa
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 10-02-2000 01:30 PM              

Laughing my ass off at that pic!

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